Thank you very much to Bérangère Ducimetière for allowing us to present you this English transcript of her original podcast Dino Sapiens - Episode 7
Hello, and welcome to this new episode of *DinoSapiens*, the podcast that explores the human side of organizational transformation.
I’m Bérangère Ducimetière, and in every episode, I take you on a journey to meet inspiring individuals shaping and driving change in organizations, all while respecting the human element.
Today, I’m joined by Remi Poujeaux, someone I had the pleasure of working with in the past. He was the one who introduced me to Enterprise Architecture, which he’ll be discussing today. Remi is a pioneer in Enterprise Architecture for Information Systems, Sales, and Marketing.
Remi began his career in a French multinational listed on the CAC 40, starting in Japan with dual responsibilities: providing product support for industrial automation, particularly production lines, and acting as a liaison between France and Japan for the development of an industrial computer. Upon returning to France, he worked in R&D on highly complex systems within multidisciplinary and international teams. He quickly recognized the importance of resolving human challenges to drive projects forward, which led him to a leadership role in integration.
He later returned to Japan to deploy SAP across all subsidiaries and joint ventures of his group. It was during this time that he realized the critical importance of user relationships, both with customers and employees, and of being on the ground — the "Gemba" — to stay connected to the practical realities of IT and its applications.
In the early 2010s, Remi returned to Paris during the deployment of Salesforce CRM for his group. This global rollout involved implementing the same tool for all sales forces across every country, business unit, and offering, whether product- or solution-based. The primary challenge in this ambitious program was not just the new technology but achieving alignment among countless stakeholders around a common process, while respecting individual needs as much as possible. Drawing on his integration experiences, Remi envisioned an innovative architecture that balanced the standardization of sales practices with the flexibility demanded by the business. His goal was to bridge gaps between people and silos using the solution's architecture, which he would oversee in development and innovation.
After leading several long-term programs within the customer experience ecosystem of the French multinational, spanning sales, support, and digital marketing — Remi joined BCG to share his expertise in innovation. He then moved to Odaseva, a Salesforce ecosystem scale-up, as Head of Innovation. Ultimately, he co-founded Pelago, a tech startup whose solution combines system architecture concepts with governance principles tailored to today’s complex organizations.
Enterprise Architecture can be compared to urban planning. In French, Enterprise Architecture is called "urbanism of the information system." Think of a system as a city.
Enterprise Architecture can be compared to urban planning
A city has an urban plan: deciding which neighborhoods to develop, which roads to build, and whether to include residential areas or shopping centers. It’s the overall planning of the city.
Once you have that plan, you construct buildings. Each building has its own architecture that fits coherently with the city. This corresponds to solution-level architectures.
Then, you build roads, which corresponds to integration architecture.
Within each building, you have electrical wiring and plumbing — that’s the technical architecture of IT.
So, we see parallels across architecture levels: from city planning (enterprise architecture) to the technical details (IT systems).
There are two main possible approaches.
The first involves creating an exhaustive map of the enterprise and all its systems, even detailing which server is in which room. You end up with a comprehensive map, which might look impressive but can be impractical because it takes so much time to create.
The second approach, which I prefer, focuses on understanding the company's priorities and zeroing in on specific areas of the map. For instance, deciding which part of the "city" requires precise planning and delving into the technological layers to ensure the architecture supports the company’s goals.
In non-digital transformations, it’s about managing people or factories. Digital transformations add a technological layer. You can’t execute a digital transformation without considering technology and systems. A plan must align the business roadmap with the IT roadmap.
You can’t execute a digital transformation without considering technology and systems. A plan must align the business roadmap with the IT roadmap.
If the business roadmap drives everything without considering IT, IT will seem like it’s lagging behind. Conversely, if the IT roadmap dominates, it may not meet business priorities. Enterprise architecture ensures alignment between these two aspects, starting with business architecture.
Governance is about defining what we plan to do and ensuring we stick to it. Architecture helps define these plans, ensures alignment with them, and identifies potential challenges, such as inconsistencies or poorly prioritized activities. For instance, it might reveal areas where planned actions are misaligned with the overall roadmap.
A common mistake is involving the architect too late. Instead, their role should be continuous throughout the project. In scaled agile approaches, for example, the idea is to align autonomous teams on objectives and timelines. Every three months, during a program increment (PI) planning session, teams align on what they’ll accomplish in the next three months. Architects play a key role here by structuring plans, assessing impacts on existing systems, and identifying new systems to develop.
A common mistake is involving the architect too late. Instead, their role should be continuous throughout the project.
Let’s take an image with shipbuilding in the 18th century:
We have detailed plans for ships like *L'Hermione* that allows us to reconstruct them today. Yet, we also find shipwrecks that don’t match their original designs because builders deviated from the plans without feedback loops to architects.
In the same way, enterprise architects should continuously engage in projects to verify and adjust designs based on real-world feedback.
Enterprise architects should continuously engage in projects to verify and adjust designs based on real-world feedback.
For a complete strategy, it’s also crucial to have an innovation team working closely with architecture. This team can test new ideas without disrupting project timelines, helping organizations stay ahead.
I’ve seen various combinations. One effective model involves someone from the business side taking on an IT role, or vice versa. For example, a sales director leading an ERP implementation or an IT professional stepping into a business leadership role. These individuals are rare and require years of development.
One effective model involves someone from the business side taking on an IT role, or vice versa
The best setup, in my opinion, is a "power couple": two individuals — one representing the business and the other IT — working together as equals. They respect each other’s constraints and engage in constructive dialogue rather than competition.
Every technology has ideal use cases, possible applications, and limitations. For instance, with databases, there are different types such as relational, graph, and NoSQL. Choosing the right combination is crucial for project success. The key is not oversimplifying decisions by standardizing on one vendor like SAP or Salesforce everywhere but finding the right mix of technologies to achieve the best outcomes.
Each methodology has its purpose. Architects should understand the rationale behind them to adapt methods to project needs. For example, in a waterfall project, a monolithic system might work fine. However, for agile methods, systems must be modular and service-oriented to support parallel team development.
In digital transformations, alignment is critical: between business strategy, technology, systems, projects, and data, as well as over time. Pelago ensures this alignment through a shared map that provides a common vision from business, IT, and project perspectives. The map highlights inconsistencies, raises alerts, and fosters alignment discussions. It also connects teams by clarifying roles and responsibilities.
In digital transformations, alignment is critical: between business strategy, technology, systems, projects, and data, as well as over time. Pelago ensures this alignment through a shared map that provides a common vision from business, IT, and project perspectives.
The application is designed for all the stakeholders of a digital transformation.
The app is scalable and can start small, focusing on a subset of a transformation in a large company or a mid-sized business. Its value grows with the complexity of the organization. If the transformation is simple enough for one person to manage mentally, the tool adds little value. But as complexity increases, so does its importance.
Transparency is essential. It doesn’t mean everyone has the same information but that decision-makers have the data they need. For example, a project might be "red" (at risk) while the program is "green" (on track), provided the project’s issues don’t heavily impact the program. Transparency prevents siloes and simplifies transformation efforts.
Transparency is essential. It doesn’t mean everyone has the same information but that decision-makers have the data they need.
My motto is: You need technology to connect people and people to connect technology. Technology doesn’t grow on trees; it’s created by humans. So, while technology plays a critical role, we shouldn’t overestimate or underestimate its importance. Successful transformations balance human and technological factors, addressing constraints and leveraging strengths from both sides.
My motto is: You need technology to connect people and people to connect technology
Be a specialist before becoming a generalist. Develop deep expertise in a technology and a business area. For example, deeply understand Customer Relation Management with Salesforce or supply chain with SAP. Start by working on the ground, understanding how users interact with systems, and discovering inefficiencies firsthand. This practical knowledge is invaluable for addressing real-world challenges.
A book that stood out to me is *Alienation and Acceleration: Towards a Critical Theory of Late-Modern Temporality* by Hartmut Rosa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_acceleration ). It explores whether there are human, physical, or societal limits to technological acceleration. For example, while trains exceeding 60 km/h proved safe despite doctor’s concerns, today’s information overload, like receiving 1,000 emails a day, stretches our cognitive limits. The book challenges us to consider if we’re building the world we want to live in.
Thank you so much, Remi, for joining DinoSapiens. I’ll be following Pelago’s journey closely and wish you great success.
Thank you, Bérangère, for having me. It was a pleasure.
That’s it for today’s episode of DinoSapiens. Thanks to Remi Poujeaux, I now have a deeper understanding of enterprise architecture and how to bridge the gap between humans and technology. Without architects, digital transformation is like a ship without a rudder or a shrimp without its tail. For more insights, check out Pelago’s website and Hartmut Rosa’s book. Don’t forget to rate and share the podcast to help it reach more listeners. See you next time on DinoSapiens. Until then, let’s avoid extinction!